vinesIn this special hour-long interview, I talk with Matthew Vines, author of “God and the Gay Christian,” and Rev. Adam Phillips, pastor of Christ Church, Portland about the tragedy in Orlando. We also discuss both what its like for a gay man like Vines, who is part of a conservative Evangelical community, to come out, and what the effects of being an Evangelical LGBTQ advocate have been for Adam.

This powerful discussion goes well beyond the myth of the biblical case against being gay, and even beyond how we, as people of faith, begin to address hate crimes like the one at Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, Florida. In particular, Matthew reveals both his need to grieve such loss before considering next steps, and what it means to make up every day as a man in a culture that generally lacks tolerance for who he is.

There’s little more I can add to this episode that isn’t said better in the show itself. It’s not the easiest listen, but for anyone interested in knowing your fellow human beings better and in working toward more holy, inspired reconciliation, this is a must.