Oh my, this is just unbelievable. Not only is this discussion ridiculous but the fact CNN covered it on 9-11 is even more troublesome. I think john macarthur is crazy and he normally proves it when I listen to his radio show, but this may be a whole new level of detachment from reality. If either Doug or John is suppose to be a gnostic, a heretical label John labels Doug and his emergent friends with, then why is the gnostic the one advocating an embodied wholeness and why is the gnostic the only one who appears sane?